New (video) iPod

So you went the rebel route and got the black one. Nice.

Hi David. Just sow this video. I havent seen the new iPod so it was nice to see your video. Looks awesome. I guess I’ll have to go to an Apple stroe to check it out for myself, although I’m affraid of going and not resiting and buying in it…

Hey Dave! That is way cool! And thanks for the plug for LO-FI SAINT LOUIS too!!

I purchased one also am very impressed with quality, Mine seems to crash alot screen turns white and will not work have you had any simlar problems my email is videodiver9 [at] yahoo [dot] com

Juan, I know what you mean … I’m afraid to go into the Apple store for fear I’ll walk out with a MAC. I really dont need a MAC I have three nice PCs here … but … I still afraid I might buy one if I am confronted with even one decent sales person!

I may have had the iPod crash, Jay … once it got very confused – and I had a white screen … eventually I somehow managed to shut it off but I had a helluva time doing it. I’m also convinced that the USB software the iPod installed on my PC is somehow conflicting with something. My PC wouldnt boot at all yesturday (even without the iPod attaced) as the Bios wasnt recognizing the USB keyboard. The PC is booting again however.

Paul, thats a great idea! I don’t have the needed cable to do that … but I’d love to see how well some of these things translate to “the big screen” I’ll see if i can find sometime to go to the apple store and find the right cable (lets hope I dont walk out with a Mac too )

I’m sticking with my PSP.

It’s got wide screen…

It’s screen is hella-cool.

(and MUCH bigger)

And I can watch all the vlogs I want with it.

(there are several transcoding apps out there… drag file in… it spits .MP4 video out)

… oh AND it surfs the web.

… AND it plays games.

… AND it plays commercial full length DVD quality movies

… AND it does all the Music / Audio Book files I could ever need.

… AND it’s about the same price point.

Hey Is Solitaire not a a game?

The PSP relies on Memory Stick to store music and ships with a scant 32MB module. Just upgrade it, you say? A 1GB Memory Stick will set you back $130 or so. For comparison, a 1GB iPod Shuffle would only set you back $149.

I did watch a DavidMeade.com vlog on the PSP.

It was very nice.

To respond for Doug (knowing him, I know his head is about to explode)…

I think his argument was that the PSP had sufficient memory for his needs not equivalent memory to the iPod.

I suppose if we added up all the connectors and adapters and other devices required to get the iPod to play UMD movie disks or play PS2 games … we’d have something quite costly and requiring a backpack and a wall outlet.

They are 2 different machines meant to fulfill 2 different primary uses … but if each can play cross over enough to satisfy their owners, excellent.

If you want to play games or watch UMD disks … go PSP its about the same price as an iPod and with management of what you store on the card could be suffient for you.

And before someone else points it out…

I didn’t even bother to mention that you’d need to add wi-fi connectivity to the IPOD to go along with that browser.

It’s a safe bet that everyone else here at DavidMeade.com is going to act like snotty middle school students (at least occasionaly) so don’t stop on our account.

J/K, not to worry Steve, I think your post came across as intended. I only posted a counter point to try and water down Doug’s inevitable response

We’re gettin’ a few new names are posting around here at DavidMeade.com (which is awesome!) and – not knowing exactly who “Steve” was – I was just afraid that our typical snotty-middle-schoolness here was going to come back at someone who wasn’t expecting it.

Never fear, if there is one thing DavidMeade.com is good for it’s the spirited sarcastic exchange!

Thanks for posting, and keep it up.

see what I mean?

Welcome back, Kevin. WTH have you been?

very cool! … I’m dying to see if the RichardShow works … nice video

I say the view that 35% of the cost that you view as hype/style is exactly what Apple wants the rest of the CE industry to think. The iPod is more then just silicon and chrome.

USAToday has a story in their tech section today, “Why are tech gizmos so hard to figure out?” It discusses how usability is more important than ever now as complicated technologies break out of college dorm rooms and into Ma and Pa’s living room. The article of course highlights the iPod as a shining example of taking a complicated and confused industry (MP3 players pre-2001) and making it so people other than Star Wars/Trek fans can use it. The article highlights a few of the usability challenges. Two of those really stood out to me.

Making it usable for all ages.

The first day I got my iPod I plugged it in named it and it started loading my music (with out changing it. When it finished I picked it up and in 3 clicks I was jamming away to a wonderful mix of Beastie Boys,Van Hallen and Chemical Brothers. This is something that even my 50 plus old mother can do. Its cliché but it just works. Also on this note Apple excels at minimizing clutter and I thank them for it. All of their products that I can think of draw power from the Firewire or USB connection. I plug it in and it not only connects but charges. Why more companies (digital video & still camera companies) don’t do this I will never know.

The iPod is usable for all ages because it is well thought out and understands what it is trying to be. The cheap way to make something more usable is to create tons of “wizards” and dancing paper clips that treat you like a small child so that the “dumb consumer” can use the product. This is the cheap way of making a product more user friendly.

The product does too much

This is a spot where Apple has done a great job really connecting with the market. The iPod is not bloated and it understands why you want it. It is a music player first and foremost. No voice recorders, fm tuners, sandwich makers, etc. in it. The iPod could have done video years ago. Why? It would just add a layer of complexity to the product when the market place was just getting use to the idea of downloading legal music. Now with the video store in place along with podcasting in video taking off it makes sense, but in the end it is still a music player.

This is a spot where I see the PSP having trouble and you highlighted it yourself in your posts “PSP” and “What me Blow up” It can do lots of stuff but none of it great (except games and Sony studio UMB movies only). I say this because with an iPod I buy it plug it in and then walk away a happy man. With a PSP (aside from games and Sony studio UMB movies only) I plug it in and have to pop in extra memory (assuming I bought some and those pants we talked about) for my music collection.

I see the PSP as a crippled product you said it yourself they sell it at a loss so they can get you to buy higher margin items games, memory, UMD disk holder (since with out the DVD sized box they come in they are very scratch prone). Again we are back to having to buy a new pair of pants to hold the much larger player, Along with game disks, maybe a movie and oh yeah my music.

The iPod I buy it, plug it in, put it and it alone in my pocket. and I have everything I need in one unbelievably small package.

That is where the 35% hype/style cost comes from. As a stock holder I hope the rest of the industry keeps thinking that 82% of the public buys iPods because they are a Fad and white.

As I have a music library of over 1 gig then I guess I am indeed by your definition savvy enough to understand that I don’t need them all on the go all the time. The logic behind saying, “If you have a large collection then you should understand why you don’t need a large collection” is a little mind numbing, but I think I get what you are trying to say. I will first say that the kind of consumer you seem to be is the market segment that the Nano is aimed at (2gigs $199 4gigs $249). Given that the nano is the #2, #7, #10, and #15 seller on Amazon’s Electronics page (Link bellow) you are not alone.

I currently have over 9 days of music on a device that can only play for like 10 hours. Why? I’ll give you a few

For ARCHIVE STORAGE reasons or like the tech types call it BACK UP files. I have spent countless hours ripping cds, buying from iTunes Music Store, building playlists, etc. If my computers hardrive crashes I lose it all. Oh wait I have all of it right here on my iPod. The thing is an external drive that happens to play music. Take it further I also have all of my contacts, calendars, weekly backups of my home directory and extensive photo collection. Also since mine still supports firewire I have it set up as a boot drive for my Mac so if a worse case scenario happens I can still get my computer up and running a have a fighting chance to save some files.

VIDEO IS BIG. As video becomes a bigger part of the legal download scene storage space is going to become more of a premium. So 1gig will look pretty pointless. This is probably why the Nano doesn’t support video.

MOTHER OF ALL CD PLAYERS. Remember back in the day when they started coming out with 100 disk cd players? My dock is plugged into my stereo and I use it as a media drive. I can play anyone of my cds on my stereo in seconds. No fiddling around with jewel cases. No trying to remember what memory stick I put it on. Every cd right there, no questions asked.

MORE EFFICIENT. I have a big music collection. If everytime I updated my iPod I had to swap out a gig or 2 of music it would be very taxing on my time and on the inards of the machine thus diminishing the life of the hardrive. Currently everytime I sync it takes about 40 seconds for it to update playlists and move over a few podcasts.

You are very obsessed with the idea of COMPONENT cost. It should be noted that many Korean and Chinese MP3 player makers are angry with Apple for selling Nano’s at a cost so low that after COMPONENT costs they can’t make money. South Korea’s FTC is actually investigating the deal between Samsung and Apple because of the low price of the Nano. I also find it a little interesting that you fault Apple for being a business. They make money on iPods. Their financial statements say that the gross margin across the iPod line is 20-30%. Companies need to make money this is not a grand revelation. Sony makes money off the PSP on games as you said why is it an issue that Apple makes money off the razor but Sony makes money off the blades. They both need to make money.

Links

I think the point of contention here is that …

MP3 players were (at least until they started having 20GB+ drives) were alot like CD players in that the user chose which songs/play lists they were taking with them that day. They’d sync up those files (rather than grab those CDs) and go.

I think this is what Doug is talking about – a portable MP3 player has historically been a player not an archival device. The logic isn’t “If you have a large collection then you should understand why you don’t need a large collection” but rather “If you are savvy enough to manage a huge library, you’re probably savvy enough to work with play lists well enough that you don’t need that entire library on the portable device.”

However, as Steve points out, things have changed. These devices do come with huge capacity now. Mine has 60GB even. So it is now possible to reasonably consider that your MP3 device will have all your songs on it, all the time.

This may be a relatively new thing in the world of MP3 players … but its been realized for long enough now that I think people can fairly consider that feature a selling point. One the PSP doesn’t have.

However it’s not a feature that some consumers consider to be required (or even wise). And the PSP is in fact selling its media player as a 2ndary feature (at least right now).

So we’re back to ‘they’re just two different things’.

For some people MP3 players don’t need to have all their songs or videos on it .. they’ll sync up what they want for that week and change it out as needed. And for people who view their players in this regard the PSP is more than able to meet the need of portable mp3/video player … and it will be one that can to alot more things … like UMD movies, kick ass games, Wi-Fi / web browsing … the works.

Apple’s iPod will remain the easier-to-use/greater-capacity player.

PSP will remain the tons-of-feature/carry-select-media-at-a-time device.

Both devices kick ass … in their own way.

It basically comes down to “Do I want lots of really cool features” or “Do I want simplicity and capacity”

… at least in my humble opinion.

(holy crap we’ve passed the 30 comments mark!)

Steve,

This is coming from 10 years of experience, you probably don’t want to argue with a Meade….it just isn’t wise, for your sanity. You could have the entire supreme court on your side, and every ounce of evidence pointing to your favor, and you’d still lose in the long run. Just agree to disagree and let it go. Trust me.

K

Kevin…

I dare you to show me where I’ve refused to yield to either supreme court ruling or superior evidence.

If you’re implying Steve is right just say so.

But I don’t see this evidence you are eluding to.

Honestly I dont think I understand what the debate is actually about anymore.

I’ll say this:

1) I consider the PSP to be a kick ass machine well worth the money.

2) I however (knowingly) spent my money on the iPod.

… I’m gonna have to start posting porn to keep up with this level of comment counts …

HOW-DY!

After this I am goin to take Kevin’s advice and move to Indiana to be with that pretty boilermaker.

Doug

Tue Nov 1st 2005, 1:13pm

“I have no problem with the iPod … it’s a cool product. But it’s price point is at least 35% hype. (or if you’re kind you can say you’re paying 35% more for “style”)

Meanwhile the Sony PSP is (again in my opinion) a value… From what we can tell about the PSP is that Sony loses money on each unit sold. Not unreasonable considering the high margin dollars they make on games … and probably movies)”

Wed Nov 2nd 2005, 7:06pm

“Still…there’s no COMPONENT reason for it to cost so much.

The trans flash drives they are using in the nano sized product is indeed more expensive than the micro hard drives they were using… but still not THAT much more.*”

Thu Nov 3rd 2005, 2:29pm

“I have NEVER said apple shouldn’t make money. NEVER.”

No, you said Sony is a better value because they sell the player at a loss. Which is true. Apple makes profits from the player (20-30%) and makes little to no profit on the other items. You have value in the PSP but that is not the whole story what good is a game player with out games/movies/memory**? Ah so the value starts to diminish when you start buying those games. To steal you line about the cost of the games and movies, “there is no COMPONENT reason for it to cost sooooooooooo much” (as a note I added the extra “o”s to “so”).

It is a common attack on Apple’s business model that they over hype and then over charge (That is what I was getting at with the COMPONENT conversation). This was very true in the 90’s but over the last few years they have given into market pressure and have changed their model to be a little more consistent with what the market place is. The first 3 gens of iPod had a box full of goodies and cost a hell of a lot. Now the box (and the price) is smaller and those other goodies are available ala carte. Since you are in the CE industry I am sure you know this.

*I forgot to mention before that they also added a very nice color screen when they switched to flash for HD

**Your value is secure if you use it only for being online.

Steve…

I’m done after this.

But what the hell Dave’s post count is getting good…

You spent a lot time quoting me just to say that I was correct that I hadn’t said “Apple shouldn’t make money”.

And then after all of that you agreed that the Sony is a value since it’s sold under cost.

(And by they way.. that’s the only reason I mentioned components. I was NOT trying to imply that Apple should sell below their cost.)

But then you get a weird again.

The Value of the PSP does not decrease when you buy games.

That’s ridiculous.

It’s a completely different purchase.

It’s CONTENT.

That’s like saying the value of the iPOD goes down when you buy music.

Or that the value a DVD player goes down every time you go to blockbuster.

Further….

Apple may make 20-30% on the player but you can’t realistically argue they make nothing from “the other items”.

It’s true that iPod accessories are HUGE sellers … but largely NOT made by apple.

Apple does however get licensing from all the manufactures out there making iPod accessories.

That’s almost 100% pure profit for apple.

And like licensing the costs associated with selling content (once it’s been produced) is very low so there’s money in that as well.

Lastly…

Truth be told Steve, I’m not attacking Apple’s business model at all.

They SHOULD hype their product.

They SHOULD charge whatever the market will let them get away with.

If anything I’m attacking the market for allowing it.

I’ve conceded in past posts that Apple is a cool product, that it’s true to it’s purpose, and that if it’s for the core consumer it’s probably a good buy.

I don’t understand why you continue to try and debunk me.

It looks more and more like you just can’t stand the fact that I’ve chosen something else.

Steve -

(Guess I wasn’t done)

Regarding the links you just added to your post.

The Lyra link you posted is to a product that was introduced YEARS ago.

Of course it’s marked down. (by the way we have enjoyed a nice percentage market share in this category thanks to that piece so unless you’re saying that Apple is the only one who should make money I fail to see how this is at all relevant)

Besides are we changing the topic now to the Lyra?!?! Good Grief.

Anyway…

Creative has been in trouble for many reasons.

They bought a lot of share with the push they made with the Zen Micro but it was at a huge loss.

Rio – Out of business.

Many others will follow.

I believe your original point was that these over seas manufactures were upset that they couldn’t produce the product as cheaply as apple.

While it’s true that Apple has a very good cost negotiation position given the volume of sales they do if RCA COULD produce the product then I think it’s safe to say that other companies could as well.

Whatever their “spin” is there are MANY reasons why these other companies are in trouble.

And the stories on how some of them are staying in business regardless of it are just as interesting.

If you really want the scoop maybe I can sneak you into one of our meetings. Then if you aren’t convinced you can throw all these links at our product development team, sourcing team, and finance guys because clearly our being in the business isn’t as insightful as your web surfing.

The take away from all of this is that Steve has made the DavidMeade.com quoteboard with:

“Everything kinda blurred after that into a muddy blend of cow girls”,

and also a close runner up quote with “It isn’t often I get to use cargo pants and pug dogs”. Congatulations. You’ll be the first addition without a last name as I know you only as “Steve”.

Also we’re very likely going to break the 50 comment mark on this post!

Just wanted to be post#50….

All Hail the Cowgirl